I would agree with all of that. On a personal level I've found Crowley's general approach to be a very powerful one at that. However - when it came to his Choronzon evocation, according to the traditional story that is, I would leave it wide open for debate as to whether or not he actually acheived his goal. I would, however, not necesarilly disagree with Thraam, but what is silence but the proper meditation of Ayin, the proper pronunciation of Shemhamphoresh, the calling on the power of Ein Soph where even Angels fear to tread? The trick of it is, we still have to come back. And I don't care how deep your transformation, it is still a human tendency to lie to ourselves. Are we ever truly free of any of our demons? I would think Crowley himself would say no. But, I do agree with you - he stopped short of crossing the Abyss, no matter how much he spoke of doing so. As Isreal Regardie put it in his words, it was a matter of a lack of depth psychology. That's a little vague, but I see his point. One major vice that Crowley never even acknowleged was his intense connection to his past through his hatred of organized Christian religion. But I recognize that's just my opinion on the matter - I truly don't know whether to say one way or the other whether he managed to cross the Abyss or not. And let the debate rage on, it's irrelevant in the end. My main point here was - as you pointed out - I can't burn my hand on a stove and convey the experience to you with no common frame of reference. One must deal with Choronzon on their own to get anything out of it.

Jason

Hi there. I never did respond to your post. ; )
I think you were completely accurate in saying that being bound in tradition can cause you to be restricted. I feel that ANY tradition can do this. The Dogma of someone else's beliefs can be the worst kind of restriction. Sometimes even your own, as you mention that Crowley was bound in tradition.

The only way you can really do magick well is with your own system. I have come to this conclusion myself recently. Following others, now matter who they are is restrictive. I think that this is a problem with a lot of magicians and their work. They can work themselves to death and they can still have problems, because they bind themselves.

Also I do agree full heartedly that no two people ever have the same type of experiences in their work. I think it is a matter of perception. I was asking people for awhile, just for my own research and to find some answers for myself, what happened with them when they encountered entities, where di they come from? What were they? How did they look, was it auditory, was it visual? was is olafactory? I mean everyone had different things to say. Most felt that it wasn't just internal, it was also external some of the time. No two entities or experiences were ever the same though, in all of the people that responded or I talked to.

Take Care,

Lilith